Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense

TPM founder Joshuah Micah Marshall said yesterday that the new McCain ad--comparing Obama to celebrities Britnay Spears and Paris Hilton-- sought to imply that Obama has a "taste for young white women."

Of course, Marshall did not provide any reasoning whatsoever to explain how he came to that conclusion, or where in the ad the possibility of Obama being attracted to white women is even hinted. Go ahead, readers. See the ad and be your own judge.

Inventing this kind of BS worked against Hillary Clinton, because virtually everyone in the media, left, center and right, hated her, and refused to ask the likes of Marshall to lay out the premises behind their arguments.

But these are not the primaries. The corporate media no longer feels compelled to play dumb, since Marshall's target is their beloved John McCain, not Clinton.

Washington Post's media critic Howard Kurtz, for instance, found Marshall's remarks puzzling:

But isn't the McCain camp mockingly comparing Obama to the likes of Britney Spears, rather than implying that he likes to hang with starlets?

Again, Marshall should start making sense, since his comments will be scrutinized this time around. McCain is not a Clinton.



Display:


Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (1.33 / 3)

McCain and GOP are not Clinton, and they will not concede one inch on this topic, period.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/070 8/12224.html

Obama's aim, in the view of the McCain camp: "to delegitimize any line of attack against him," said McCain aide Steve Schmidt. He said he saw that potential trap being sprung when Obama predicted in Missouri Wednesday that the GOP nominee would attack the Democrat because he "doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills."

"I don't [care] whether it helps or hurts us," Schmidt said. "A lie unresponded to becomes the truth."


by leaf on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:52:58 PM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (2.00 / 1)

So you're a Republican, spouting Republican talking points, no?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (none / 0)

Let's see: If you do not think that the ad portrays Obama as a man who loves white women, you are spreading Republican talking points.

Is that it?


by kingsbridge77 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course (2.00 / 1)

1) It's a republican talking point
2) You're spreading it

Why is that so hard?

Maybe I really believe John Kerry punked out under fire. I'd certainly be allowed to believe it, and post that belief on Democratic blogs.

I'd also be allowed to cry about the inevitable response, but I should know better.


by Neef on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 08:14:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (1.20 / 5)

But Schmidt said McCain had learned the lesson of Clinton's campaign, which began by taking her and her husband's affinity with African-American voters for granted but wound up seeing days and weeks consumed by racially charged gaffes and allegations, ranging from a New Hampshire supporter's suggestion that Obama had dealt drugs to Bill Clinton's own comparison of Obama's campaign to the Rev. Jesse Jackson's.

Remarkably, in fact, Schmidt sees a sort of political soul mate in Bill Clinton. "Say whatever you want about Bill Clinton," Schmidt said, "but it's deeply unfair to suggest his criticism of Obama was race-based. President Clinton was a force for unity in this country on this subject. Every American should be proud of his record as both a governor and president. But we knew it was coming in our direction because they did it against a President of the United State of their own party."


by leaf on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:53:21 PM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (2.00 / 1)

Schmidt, Rove discipline and former campaign manager for celebrity candidate Arnold S., is your inspiration.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:59:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (2.00 / 2)

No, you lack the ability to analyze cultural texts.

I'm not going to bother explaining it to you. Read a few well done pieces on the McCain campaign like
http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/local/lo ngisland/politics/blog/2008/07/sex_celeb s_why_britney_and_par.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/07/30/ politics/fromtheroad/entry4309536.shtml

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7 /31/142834/892/240/560121


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:55:52 PM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (1.50 / 2)

don't give me links. The ad is short, and you could easily tell me where in the ad is it implied that Obama has a "taste for white women", as Marshall weirdly claims.


by kingsbridge77 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 10:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow, the trolls are just on fire (2.00 / 2)

tonight.


by Geekesque on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:06:37 PM EST

Re: Wow, the trolls are just on fire (1.00 / 1)

Dear Geekesque, do you believe Marshall's claim that the ad plays the race card, and why.


by kingsbridge77 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:20:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow, the trolls are just on fire (2.00 / 1)

The sewer is backed up AGAIN!


by Glaurung on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:01:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (2.00 / 2)

Have you seen what the GOP did to Harold Ford in his Senate race?

Granted, that ad was much more explicit...but it only takes a little of the subtext to set some sensibilities off.


by Say Car Ramrod on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:37:01 PM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (1.00 / 2)

The ads are very different. Anyone with an IQ of 1 or more would have noticed that the blonde girl in the Ford ad was flirting with him. She said, "call me, Harold", in a sexy tone.

Britnay and Paris are not seen flirting with Obama, or even interacting with him. Besides, their link to Obama is explained by the narrator, namely, that they are all celebrities who can attract masses, but lack leadership.


by kingsbridge77 on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:55:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think (2.00 / 2)

The idea that the ad makes a cut from Obama immediately to two white women is supposedly a subliminal trigger; the lightest association possible.  This wouldn't have an effect on or be noticable to anyone but racists, so if true, it's extremely sneaky.  

Sounds like a real stretch to me, but it certainly matches Rove's earlier 'country club' comment, which was just blatantly playing that angle.  I think there's no doubt that some would love to spread that evil meme, but it has tremendous potential to backfire, so if you do see it it's likely to be extremely subtle and completely deniable.


by semiquaver on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 11:40:10 PM EST

PUMA (2.00 / 1)

Go ahead and vote for McCain Kingsb.  You guys have 1/100th the following of log cabin republicans.

Good.  Luck.  With.  That.


Ornithological Vaccinations and Aviary Heuristics
by OVAH on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 12:03:56 AM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (2.00 / 1)

I don't see the racist theme here. I believe it is just what they claim it to be, an attempt to paint Obama as someone who is as vacuous and inane as Paris or Britney.

I'm in the Memphis area. I saw the ads against Harold Ford when they ran. This is nothing like those.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 12:08:53 AM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (none / 0)

Look it matters not the intent of a message or a commercial . It is the impression the individual listener or viewer gets. If a sexual connotation is  the message Josh got fine. And it is also quite reasonable to assume others did not see it that way.

We each have our own filters. Those filters are what make one person hear one thing and another hear another even when the words are identical.

Let's move on.

We are never going to see it again. The Hilton's have raised a holy stink about it and they are very  very large Republican donors


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 12:20:32 AM EST

Oh please. (1.00 / 1)

Excuse me, you just don't get to make up a "message"  that you "feel" is in some ad, and then turn right around and accuse someone of exploiting racism.

Does rationality and objectivity mean nothing in your world? Do you get to make up everything your heart desires?


by frankly0 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 01:08:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (2.00 / 2)

Juxtaposing pictures of young blonde white women with the image of a black man most certainly does raise uncomfortable echoes of common racist phobias and stereotypes. It's a pretty subtle in this context, but I expect the racial messaging to get blunter as the campaign continues. McCain's camp will go as low as it needs to in order to rally any remnants of the GOP southern strategy they can find.

But back to the ad: consider other celebrity women they could have chosen. Why not brunettes? For that matter, why women? Why not male celebrities? And why two figures whose popularity arguably peaked four years ago? Because they're young, blonde, white women.

If you don't understand this, take some time to try before running to the defense of John McCain.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:56:45 AM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (1.00 / 1)

"It's a pretty subtle in this context"=it doesn't exist, but we can pretend that it does if we just clap louder


by frankly0 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 08:15:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If the point of the ad (none / 0)

was to compare Obama's celebrity to that of Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, i.e. being famous for being famous as opposed to being famous for some deed or accomplishment, what brunettes or male celebrities compare to Paris or Britney?


by georgiapeach on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 08:19:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If the point of the ad (2.00 / 1)

The irony is that the parents of both of these idiots are Repugs, and one could surmise that since they have no thoughts of their own, that they are too.


by venician on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 10:39:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The ad does not work for Obama, compared to (none / 0)

Ford because Obama is very much married unlike Ford who was not and was accused of cavorting at the Playboy mansion in the same ad. This argument does not hold water!


by suzieg on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 08:44:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (2.00 / 1)

> why women? Why not male celebrities?

For the same reason they call him a "starlet" and a "debutante". They are trying to feminize him, like they have every other male Dem Presidential candidate for quite some time. The choice of Paris and Britney is about 75% gender trashing/homophobia, 20%+ charges of elitism, and maybe 5% racial innuendo, if that. I can easily picture them running the same comparison if the Dem nominee were white. They call Edwards "The Breck Girl" and made much of his haircuts, for example.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:11:52 AM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (none / 0)

In my opinion, McCain wanted to explicitly paint Obama as a vacuous hollow celebrity with no substance. Not entirely sure about the racial-sexual overtones but I understand that Republicans know what makes their base tick and introduce subliminal messaging to target that - I wouldnt be surprised if Josh is correct. The reaction from McCain and Rick Davis I thought was surprisingly strong considering Obama has talked about his funny name and looking different several times. It looks like a planned effort to bring up the race card.


by ozeki saketini on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 06:39:07 AM EST

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (none / 0)

if the obamas keep seeing racism in everything, people will take notice. it is about growing up, presidential campaigns are not childrens crusades & tough, sharp elbows politics is to be expected, no whined about


by blackflag on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 06:43:53 AM EST

Racist ads 101 (2.00 / 1)

Rule 1: If everyone thinks it was racist, it's overblown.

Let me ask the counterquestion: Why didn't anyone claim the "Gas Prices are Obama fault" was racist?

Easy. Because it didn't strike anyone as racist. It was devoid of racial symbolism.

This time, you have widely separated sources wondering if this ad was racially tinged. Do you suppose no one in the McCain camp perceived the symbolism?

Finally, if you think this was a total coincidence, why use "from the bottom of the deck" as a comeback, when first time that was said that was during the O.J. trial? (oh snap, black men and white women again).

Still coincidental?


by Neef on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 08:22:44 AM EST

Re: Racist ads 101 (1.00 / 1)

"This time, you have widely separated sources wondering if this ad was racially tinged."

Yes, "widely separated sources" all of whom have in common a desperate need to find racism, somewhere, anywhere, to make a point that furthers their own biases.

And I guess when "widely separated sources" all concluded that Bill Clinton's talk about "fairy tale" was about Obama's candidacy and not about his position on the war, then it must be so.

Look, you don't just get to make up anything you want, to allege any connection your woolly head and heart may desire, and assert a claim as toxic as "racism" on its basis.

You want vicious, dirty politics? Just about nothing is worse than that.


by frankly0 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 08:42:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"desperate need"? (none / 0)

I dispute your mind-reading abilities. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have something to back that up. Tell me why the NYT and several Progressive bloggers "desperately need" to see racism.


by Neef on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 09:23:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Josh Marshall: You make no sense (none / 0)

Huh? "everyone" sees it as racist? Are you ok?


by kingsbridge77 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 01:13:41 PM EST


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